@bstacey That's why we're going to put on our thinking caps, and figure this out.

@maloki Yes. And I think it's worth taking the time to do it right.

@maloki @bstacey But what if: forking caps?

@bstacey @maloki "the one guy in the very middle has to wear too many different hats and becomes the bottleneck to progress" this sounds like exactly what's happened. It's a common story in #PeerProduction projects #GrowingPains

@abbenm @bstacey @maloki I haven't seen any, but I accept there may people who say "fork it" and mean "shut up". But I wonder if these is a cultural misunderstanding here? Since the popularization of #Git, forking has become normalized in #PeerProduction. It's seen as a way to take energy that is at risk of being wasted on butting heads, and redirect it into increasing diversity in our software. When we fork, we create proofs-of-concept, rather than argue in circles.

@abbenm @bstacey @maloki
if respectful persuasion fails, the available options are a) try to force a founder/ "benevolent dictator" to make changes they don't want to make, and b) get together everyone that wants those changes, and create a new project with those changes. Given those choices, b) actually seems like the much less hostile option, and the one most likely to succeed, and least likely to fester and stress out everyone involved

@strypey @abbenm @bstacey Yes, but this is very hard to do when you're immediately met with "forking is hostile actions" when you try to arrange it.

I've had a lot of shit to deal with since I started to see if there was a community for this.

@maloki @abbenm @bstacey ok, that's weird. Is it the same people though? Or is that maybe coming from folks on other side of the cultural divide I'm positing?

@strypey Honestly, it doesn't really matter, because you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.

Techbros: Fork it!

We: Okay!

Techbros: No Don't Do That!

We:

@maloki Is it though? Or is it ...

Folks who understand the value of forking: Fork it!

You: Okay!

Folks who think forking is equivalent to splitting a political party into two smaller, and therefore less effective parties: No Don't Do That!

You: but it's the best way to reduce toxic conflict and get *everyone's* needs met.

@strypey I don't have energy for this.

@maloki what I'm trying to say is stick to your guns! You are doing a good and useful thing for the (meta-)community! What you are experiencing (and probably already knew) is that taking on a leadership role means taking shit for everything you do and don't do, and being constantly second-guessed. Leadership is doing what you think is right, even when everyone thinks it's wrong, and trusting your own judgement.

@stolas I know, I know.

But it's still funny AF.

@stolas if I cared about the anti-forkers I wouldn't have started this survey in the first place.

@strypey I actually ended up reflecting a little bit on this.

I think we've had a lot of instances when the vulnerable group who reside here on mastodon have gotten very vocal about their needs to hopefully change the mind of the Benevolent Dictator, because making it a big thing was the only way to make it happen.

And yes, that naturally seems like it's "just a very vocal minority" (minorities are vulnerable, so that makes sense).

@strypey
And now when a) has happened a bit too often too close together, b) is happening, ie we're seeing if others feel the same, realize that they are, and trying to form a group and go from there.

Thank you for helping me connect these dots.

@maloki de nada :) Cell division and diversification is a healthy and organic form of growth. I'm very supportive of what you're doing, as I've mentioned in other posts. Hope that's coming through, and I'm not communicating so poorly that expressions of support are coming across as some kind of subtle trolling :{

@strypey
@abbenm @bstacey @maloki
These options aren't mutually exclusive actually.

When GCC's contribution flow stagnated due to its strict committee, a bunch of forks popped up. Those forks then merged together as an alternative GCC, which proved to be much better, so GNU declared the previous project obsolete and the fork the new GCC, with its maintainers/developers as the new committee.

@accedie That works too, but we just gotta dare to take that step to try something new. Etc.